Football has a PPL Problem?

Posted by Brian Ewart on March 6, 2011 · Under Big East, Football · 146 Comments 

It was only a week ago that we reported that prominent trustees were actively raising money for the football team’s proposed move to the Big East conference. While it still seems that the trustees are leaning toward a ‘yes’ vote next month if the fundraising is in place, new complications may make the decision a more difficult one.

Lately, it has emerged that the Big East conference has been lukewarm toward Villanova’s preferred venue for games, PPL Park in Chester. The soccer-specific stadium currently seats only 18,500 fans, and while it would not be the smallest stadium in the Bowl Subdivision (both Idaho’s Kibbie Dome and FIU Stadium are smaller), it would be the smallest stadium in the Big East conference by over 16,000 seats.

According to sources close to the situation, administrators at the University of Pittsburgh are unhappy with the idea of having such a small venue in the conference, and would prefer that Villanova plays it’s home games at a venue that can hold a minimum of 35,000 fans (to match Cincinnati’s Nippert Stadium).

Pittsburgh was also reportedly upset that Villanova has pushed the ultimate decision on this issue back until April, despite the fact that large the capital investment in moving from FCS to FBS football requires more due-diligence than a move from one FBS conference to another.

PPL Park seats 18,500 fans, but can potentially hold more fans in standing-room only areas. It was also designed with expansion in mind with a plan in place from the beginning to be able to expand seating to 30,000 fans without re-footing the building.

The Philadelphia Union drew almost 35,000 fans to their home opener at Lincoln Financial Field last season, and may not be opposed to expanding their new building sooner rather than later.

If plans to play at PPL Park were to be vetoed by the Big East conference, Villanova would be forced to either play home games at a different venue, or they may not be able to make the move at all. While $35million for a practice facility may be an attainable number, building a new off-campus 40,000-seat stadium would likely cost significantly more — UConn’s Rentschler Field cost approximately $91million to build, while UCF’s Bright House Networks Stadium cost around $55million to build and Rebtschler was at least partially funded by the state.

Other current venues locally have their own issues. Franklin Field is an aging venue, that lacks the luxury features of PPL Park and has an undesirable location on the campus of another university. Recent renovations to the stadium might make it more bearable for Villanova fans, and the opening of a new park adjacent to it would at least allow an opportunity to tailgate on game days.

Meanwhile, Citizens Bank Park won’t be available until after the Major League Baseball season (and probably the playoffs) are over in early November each year, and the layout of the baseball field may not be idea for watching or hosting football games.

Due to Temple’s lease, Villanova likely cannot bid on Lincoln Financial Field until at least 2017, and Radnor Township will not allow a stadium of appropriate size to be built on-campus.

If Pitt successfully blocks Villanova’s use of PPL Park, or causes the conference to waver on it’s offer of financial assistance to the program (likely in the form of waived fees or pay-outs for playing away games during the transition), then it may not matter how the trustees feel about the move otherwise.

Edited 3/7: UCF’s stadium was apparently not publicly-funded.

     
Nike 2010 Team Issue T
$19.95
Adidas Helmet Mask Basic T
$17.95
Upgrade 'Nova FB
$10

  • GPraz

    I make the first Post. Not gonna happen. Pitt can’t and ain’t gonna block it.Two reasons.Do they want to fly to Central Florida every other year? The league already knows PPL Park is on the menu.Second the group theat runs PPL Park and Union has made it clear “capacity and expansion is not an issue”
    Lastly……..Scared Pitt???? I noticed you scheduled us as your first game 2013! Strange you like us enough to pay us a cool half million to travel there .
    If Nova moves like we should where we play won’t matter and the stadium will be over 20,000 and Pitt will follow orders…..

  • http://twitter.com/stevefxs3 Steve Slade

    Another reason to hate those F’rs from Pitt.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Countdown to Barney posting . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .

  • GPraz

    Last time we played them Brian Westbrook got a standing O from their home crowd after scoring 5 TD’s five different ways and we lost 49-44! What are they worried about maybe we can beat them right now? They canned their coach and will stink for the next few years. I would think they would love to have us.Easy win right? Still counts.This may be good.
    hey Brian what is the angst? Don’tget this!

  • Anonymous

    funny!

  • Anonymous

    Pitt is dead set against playing in this shiny new arena. I’m sure they’re worried about their players making off with the bath robes and silver ware…

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11062/1129330-233.stm

  • ck1

    If the stadium is expanding to 30k, and Villanova doesn’t join the Big East until 2014, what is Pitt’s problem?

  • GPraz

    Just found out on a blog Villanova voted to allow Pitt into the Big East!! NICE

  • GPraz

    Brian that is sooooooooooooooooooooo funny.I’m watching 60 minutes and laughing my a..off!

  • GPraz

    Scared

  • GPraz

    taking their recruits

  • GPraz

    Chill thats the best link.I was busylooking for it. They are scared and should be. We will take their recruits. I think we already got one.The Field and stadium will be a big home advantage to us.LOUD!!! I am a Union season ticket holder. With their coaching changing like underwear, players never graduating, arrest records, not showing up for games and their admins are worried about another schools home stadium?? Really? Are you kidding? That would be like Jay worrying right now about the lack of attendance at South Florida games. NOTICE TO PITT NOTICE TO PITT GO find out where your players are right now and maybe a few will show up for classes this week.

  • Mary

    did you see where UCONN LOST….1.6million going to a BSC Bowl game? If that happened to Villanova, Rosemont would be buying Nova.

  • Anonymous
  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    The votes are often anonymous, but I am pretty sure that Villanova voted for every current Big East member that joined after 1980.

  • GPraz

    Did you notice the NCAA met with Bowl Reps to address the mandatory bowl game ticket packages that cause teams to “lose” money?Name a BCS team that has dropped down in football? Name a BCS school considering dropping down? Might want to read Inquirer article April 1st 2009. The three other BCS football schools in Final Four outspent Nova big time….in basketball….. and that only 5 out of the last 40 Final Four teams did not have Big time football.We lost 4 million on football last year. Uconn will lose 1.8 with the Bowl loss for the year. With TCU and the new Big east contract each school should expect a “bump’ of a minimum of 1-3 million per year. We lost 4 million.$$$$ NO TEAM in the Big East ,which is a down BCS conference, lost more than 4 million in fact only 6 programs in BCS conferences lost money. Nova should buy Rosemont and build a football stadium.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Villanova loses a lot more than that on Athletics every year. No different than the obscene costs of hosting FCS playoff games or even traveling all over to away playoff games. Except scaled to the increase in exposure.

    College GameDay was a huge success for promoting the university nationally, and yet they lost a ton of money getting campus ready to host that. Is football really any different?

  • GPraz

    Brian if universities ran like true businesses they would shut down the chess club, habitat for humanity, drama team, cooking club, political clubs,club sports, intramurals sports etc Heck the church cost money.!!! Almost everything a university does COST money. Only football and basketball (men’s) give you the return on your investment and the possiblity of making money. I just love this argument by people including faculty that we should not spend money. The English Department cost money. Graduation ceremony cost money. Why not cut out that too. Don’t really need it right?? If this were a business decision purely, made by me, I would cancel all men’s sports except basketball and football and provide just enough womans sports to meet title IX but those sports would be curling,badminton, golf, tennis, fencing. and table tennis.

  • JK_Nation

    Don’t forget cricket.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Here is a link to every Final Four team since 1985: http://basketball.about.com/od/ncaatournament/a/NCAAchampions.htm

    The following non-FBS football teams have appeared since 2000: Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Butler and George Mason.

    Mason and Butler are really flukes, and Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette have abnormally-large basketball budgets for non-FBS schools. Even Duke, whose football program is a target of jokes, is able to afford the biggest basketball budget in America, partly because of it’s association with a BCS conference (and associated revenue).

    For what it’s worth, of the Basketball National Champions since 1985, only Villanova and Connecticut have won as FCS football members, and UConn’s pre-FBS championship came while they were transitioning to the Bowl Subdivision. Since 2000, no FCS or non-football school has won a Division 1 championship in basketball.

  • cman

    Great article.

  • GPraz

    JK— your jolly good right!!!

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Eric Watkins, publisher of VUSports.com, doesn’t believe the stadium issue will have a major effect on the decision.

    Either way, I think it is worth discussing, particularly Pitt’s involvement.

  • EZEDISGREAT

    PPL Park needs another tennant. That tenant will be concerts, not a college football team. The Union will be playing to 9000 people by 2016. After a pretty successful inaugural season, in terms of play and wow factor of the stadium, do you read anything about their season tickets subscriptions going up? Didn’t think so.

    The problem with soccer is that it’s very core fans, the young players and their parents spend too much time on the soccer field, practicing three times a week, playing twice a weekend and playing ten months out of 12. Most of them are tired of the game by the time they reach 14.

    Nova football didn’t draw very well in their playoff march to their championship a year ago. Going back to big time football will be a disaster. What is wrong with a basketball conference of Catholic Schools that don’t have big time football. Marquette, Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, St. John’s, Notre Dame(an independent in football) and adding Xavier. Major markets of New York, Philadelphia, Washington and the national alumni of Notre Dame.

    Louisville and Syracuse need to be in the Philadelphia-New York market for recruiting more than these Catholic schools need to be part of a Big East that has those two schools. Jardine and Jackson’s parents probably saw 80 percent of their kids road games as they were in driving distance. Have the Catholic Schools leave and Syracuse has road games of TCU, Pitt, W. Virginia, Rutgers, Connecticut, Cincinatti, S. Florida, Louisville. Less inticing for the talent pool of Phila-North Jersey, since their parents will have to move to their college town to watch them. Compare the nine left with the 8 Catholic schools plus Xavier and if you were a TV network concerned about big time tv market share, who would you rather give a long term contract to.

  • GPraz

    Current Big East Standings
    1. Pitt FBS
    2. ND FBS
    3. Louisville FBS Top 8 teams 6 FBS 2 Non FBS
    4. Syracuse FBS Bottom 8 2 FBS 6 Non FBS
    5. St. John’s NONE 1 team in top 10 doesn’t play football
    6. WVU FBS 4 of bottom 6 don’t play football
    7. Cincy FBS
    8. Gtown FCS
    9. UCONN FBS
    10. Nova FCS
    11. Marquette NONE
    12. SHU NONE
    13. Rutgers FBS
    14. Providence NONE
    15. USF FBS
    16. DePaul NONE

  • Jimbo

    See, this is what you get with a move to the BE — a third rate football program that thinks it’s a national title contender and that gets a gazillion dollars a year from the Commonwealth of Pa. complaining about where Nova will play its games. Who else will be unhappy about something — Syracuse, UConn, WVU. We don’t get this with the I-AA arrangement we have now. Let’s stay where we are.

  • Bfrlaw

    With conference realignments just beginning and the big time major schools getting their own tv networks i.e. Texas, and the biggest programs now discussing a super conference – Texas, USC, Oklahoma, ND, Miami et al., staying where we are will not be a viable option in the years to come. Villanova has to upgrade football back to D1 to stay competitive and in a big time conference.

  • GPraz

    Well I will give you this. At least you agree the clock is ticking and a “catholic basketball league” is coming. “Whats wrong with a basketball conference of Catholic Schools that don’t have big time football” Well nothing is wrong except no ESPN.No way.BCS controls that network and no way BCS Big East would allow anywhere equal footing. Sounds like the Atlantic Ten at best. Playoff in FCS don’t draw well at any school. Delaware didn’t sell out quarter final. App state didn’t sell all their tickets to Nova. You have travel, weather, thanksgiving break and less than a week’s notice. Eastern Washington did not sell out their game against us. It’s not one Bowl game in a sunny location.It’s multiple bad weather games many in Northern regions (where the majority of FCS teams come from). If we do that and stay in FCS CAA we will lose Jay Wright and find ourselves on local TV and be regarded as the little main line school that used to play big time sports.Seton Hall, Providence,Depaul doesn’t get my heart beating and compares to CAA football. Want some insite into our attendance at FCS football and “this FCS” type basketball “catholic league” look how many people showed up for the Delaware basketball game at Wells Fargo. It was dead. And remember 8000 seats were included in a package.
    By the way I am a Union season ticket holder and they had to expand the season tickets by 1000 not counting packages. There will be football played there.by the way.
    I am also a 25 year football season ticket holder (corporate sponsor) and I know without a doubt 15,000 minimun per game is a done deal .
    Lastly, There are 3 other “soccer only” stadiums hosting football games.Frisco Texas had the FCS championship where soccer is played.

  • GPraz

    Quote from CEO of PPL Park: He was not refering to other soccer games.That was addressed in earlier statements.By “other” sporting events he means NON SOCCER.MLS conference call.

    “We will look to do another 10 to 20 sporting events, as well as music concerts. Another unique feature in the south end of the building is that there are about 500-600 removable seats and underneath there is a concrete concert stage platform. We’ll be able to set-up and put on pretty good sized music concerts.”

    “The stadium can expand and we expect to expand it to have 30,000 as the attendance.”

    “Live Nation the number one concert promoter in the Nation lost millions last year’…It is expected they will reduce concerts dramatically next couple years and “reduce’ the number of venues it promotes. Jehtro Tull anyone?
    Source: Rolling Stone Magazine
    SOLUTION: VILLANOVA FOOTBALL

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    That’s a good point. My friend’s dad really wanted him to go to college at Temple, and his mom went to St. Joes, and he just wouldn’t have to deal with them complaining if he went to one of those schools…

    I guess Villanova was a bad decision for him based on your logic.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    FWIW, that is not always the case. Normally Villanova and Georgetown have both been top-8 teams in the Big East regular season standings, and Marquette is more often-than-not up there as well.

  • Pucky

    The fact that Pitt’s so opposed to us joining is my number one reason to move up. Time for a new beast in the Big East.

  • Chosenphil

    The author of this story is wrong about UCF’s stadium. The stadium was 100% funded by UCF, not a dime came from the state. There is a state law in Florida that no tax payer money can be used for University athletic purposes. That was passed after FSU basically used tax payer money to renovate Doak Campbell Stadium.

  • Nervous Nelly

    surprised it hasn’t happened already!!!!!

  • GPraz

    I was just tying to make the case that on any given year the “balance of power” has shifterd to the football powers. Remember when ND and Pitt first joined the Big East? They at that time were near the bottom now they are the top two teams with excellent on campus stadiums partially paid for from football revenue. It’s not a coincidence that the 5 worst teams the last five years by winning percentage that 4 have NO football.

  • GPraz

    Actually Pitt doesn’t get “gazillion dollars” from the state. They are not a state school!

  • GPraz

    Must say if they are that worried it may be a good sign.

  • Old School

    You’ve also got Dayton.

    I think the upgrade will not happen; television coveage will be curtailed; Jay Wright will leave (he will eventually anyway); and life will go on.

  • Bfrlaw

    actually Pitt is a State School…

  • Anonymous

    Villanova doesn’t have the sizable alumni base to support a football program. Let’s assume that the Wildcats win the Big East and receive a bid to the Fiesta Bowl. How many of the 20,000 tickets that the university must purchase will they be able to sell to students, alumni, and friends. The University of Connecticut had difficulty selling their allotment of tickets to this year’s Fiesta Bowl and they’re a state university will an enormous network of students and alumni. A majority of schools lose money when they receive a bowl bid because they can’t sell out the mandatory allotment of tickets. Who’s going to buy tickets at face value to see Villanova play North Texas in the Papa John’s Bowl in Alabama?

  • dcfelco

    I disagree, the Union increased their full season ticket list to 13,000 this year, up from 12,000 last year. I also think you’re underestimating the market for soccer in the Philadelphia area (incl. South Jersey and Delaware). I guess time will tell but saying the Union will play to 9k is pretty harsh and without any support.

  • FruitLoops

    Note to Pitt: Wouldn’t you rather like seeing a full stadium of 18-20,000 (even though I admit it may be many visitor fans) than seeing a 3/4 empty stadium at Heinz Field when Pitt plays Youngstown State?

  • Machenbach

    Nova will lose a lot of money on this. Temple stunk it up and there alumni base is a lot bigger. Lincoln financial is basically empty when the Owls play, what makes Nova think they can do any better in the same market. They will be bottom feeders for a long time much like Duke and Vandy. UCF/Houston or even Delaware/Umass are much better choices for the conference being that they are all large public schools.

  • Jimbo

    Wikipedia:

    In 1966, Pitt was designated by Pennsylvania as a state-related university. As such, Pitt receives public funds (currently more than $200 million per annum) and offers reduced tuition to
    Pennsylvania residents. … Mark Nordenberg has been chancellor of the University since 1995 and is leading Pitt through a period of substantial progress, including a $2-billion capital-raising campaign that is over half-way toward achieving its goal[43] and a $1-billion 12-year facilities plan.[44] In 2010, Pitt’s $2.033 billion endowment ranked 28th among all colleges and universities and 7th nationally among public universities.[45] Pitt’s endowment now stands at $2.05 billion.[2]

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    They are “state-related” like Penn State or Temple.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    I edited the story. Sorry about the mistake.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    To be fair, Temple plays basketball in front of sparse crowds even while the program is ranked. Villanova has never had that problem. If Nova can draw 20,000 for basketball, they will draw 15-20,000 for football if they put a decent team on the field.

  • Colt

    It’s also hard to say that Nova, Gtown and Marq are non-FBS schools. Yes they don’t get FBS money, but they do still get the FBS conf affiliation being in the BE for basketball. This is why we all make more money than other Catholic schools not in a FBS conference, St Joes, LaSalle, Xavier. That BE $$$ will go away in 3-5 years once the BE fills out their 12 team/football conf championship game roster.

  • Colt

    Let’s keep title IX scholarships just in women’s tennis. Lots and lots of tennis. The hottest girls are in tennis….

  • Colt

    Temple’s alumni base is bigger but arguably not stronger. Nova fans and locals are used to coming out and cheering!!!

    Let’s Go Nova!!!

  • Tvclavin04

    And that AWESOME VU Wildcat quidich team…jeez

  • unconditional love

    if Nova doesn’t move up, Jay will leave when the BE falls apart because he’s too good looking to not be on tv. A lot of people on this blog may like the sound of getting rid of Jay and the Guard U moniker, but I do not…I do not because I was around for this…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGHx4FXZzlE

    A college CYO bball league sounds nice on paper, but it would just be a glorified A10 that will become a mid-major within 10 years…

  • Rick19

    What in God’s name is that? You sucked me in. I thought it was going to be a video of Lappas saying something stupid. You actually found something worse.

  • curthurley

    From a WVU fan, I wish you guys had the fan base and support to move up but I think its time to be realistic. We at WVU dont only sell out our stadium, WVU fans sell out other peoples stadiums: See Marshall, Cincin, Louisville. We travel better than any other team in this conference. 30k seats doesnt cut it, 35k seats at CIncin doesnt even cut it. I’m sorry but anything less then 40k is just a waste. This is a fairly simple question and answer. Do you have the fan base to support this move? No. Last year (2010) your average attendance was 7500. I would be willing to speculate that we have 7500 tailgating DURING the game. Its a fact that on game days, Morgantown becomes the largest city in West Virginia. We have zero pro teams so the mountaineers become our number one team.

  • Megadrone

    Huge difference between having your home slate of Buffalo, Ohio U and Akron vs. UConn, Syracuse, Pitt (who you’ve played against in hoops for 30+ years) and Rutgers (state U of the neighboring state). When Temple was a BE school they were consistenly horrible and a third-rate tenant in their own home field. If Villanova upgrades and has the same level of support that Temple had, it would be Villanova’s own doing. 30K people come out for the Temple-Nova game each year, and Temple doesn’t even draw close to that for any other game (unless they are playing Penn State). Philadelphia would support college football at that level if the team was worth watching.

  • GPraz

    How would Union average attendance dip to below 9000 when you have 13,000 season tickets right now and such a large fan club. Once this team makes the playoffs they will sell out almost every game. This is the same convoluted logic in comparing Villanova’s FCS football attendance vs possible Big East attendance. Villanova vs Towson in a cold metal bleacher seat, old broken down, no bathroom, no bee,r no tailgating, no parking Villanova stadium vs Villanova vs Pittsburgh at a state of the art everyone has a seat, modern bathroomed, clean, organized beverage serving fan covered video screened natural grass stadium on regional or National TV. WHAT????!!!!!

  • GPraz

    I read that Pitt is a unique school not really considered a state school. When i was researching them in regards to football I found this out. They get state help but I also believe the city is involved. I will check again but I’m 99% on this.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Colt: When Marquette last went to the Final Four, they were in Conference USA, which is one of the better FBS conferences outside of the BCS. So, not quite the same as being associated with the Big East, but not tremendously far off.

    Xavier, one of the better programs in a conference without football, has not been to a Final Four since the field expanded to 64+

  • GPraz

    Convincing people of this is so hard but for someone like me who goes to all Villanova football games and numerous other college games I know that to be true. A Villanova “home” game at Franklin Field drew 24,000. All the Temple -Nova games drew at least 30,000 and they were played at terrible times (5pm/6pm) and during Phillies games before labor day weekend. Army/Navy gets 60,000. There is a post below from WVU fan and he makes valid points BUT he and others here don’t realize how untapped and rabid the Philadelphia market here is for football. People would support a local team playing national teams on the big stage. Many people travel to Penn State and Notre Dame every year to see games. What the WVU fan doesn’t know and others is that Villanova stadium is horrible. A terrible terrible stadium. That is the main reason no one goes there. It stinks!! We will not be Morgantown on game day but we can draw. There is a very large population of Catholics in Philly to boot and Morgantown is the size of South Philly so with 2.1 million in the metro area we can get 30,000 at a game on a Saturday afternoon. Temple never drew in the Big Five for basketball. We used to count, and I mean COUNT ,their fans at the Palestra for doubleheaders!!!!. They are a large commuter school with many of their students working and going part time. This is not a knock on Temple I actually think they do a good job with everything but they are like a giant community college. We would be the only ticket in town except the Eagles and at one fourth the cost to see a game. “Let’s go son we are going to see Villanova play Boston College this weekend and next weekend TCU will be here. let’s go to that one too…..”

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    UConn gets almost 40,000 fans into their stadium. Look up their attendance in FCS. Boise State also struggled to get people to attend their FCS games (they installed blue turf to try and garner fan interest).

    Attendance at the FCS level is entirely unrelated to attendance at the FBS/BCS level. It’s intellectually and logically dishonest to suggest that it is.

    I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, and I agree that West Virginia has great fan support, as well as a level of “because I’m from West Virginia” support that Villanova might not get. However, fan support is likely to increase a lot when the football rivalries match basketball rivalries. Basketball games sell out the smaller on-campus arena for every game and last year the average for Wachovia Center games was almost 20,000.

  • GPraz

    Beat me to the research. There was something about “state related” that makes it not fully state in terms of raising tuition etc but at any rate they certainly have the funds!!!! Thanks

  • GPraz

    They may be worried about all those players they have who have been arrested who will roam around Chester and Philadelphia or maybe Atlantic City after the game!!!

  • GPraz

    Brian please help me make these people understand this. I need medication but I think you are an attorney!!!!. Know any doctors? FCS is like the D-league in the NBA. It like the Reading Phillies vs the Philadelphia Phillies. Let’s see it’s saturday afternnon you can go to delapidated Villanova stadium to watch a college football game against Fordham or Towson or William and Mary, park two miles away, get a ticket from Radnor. Then sit in the stands on a METAL bleacher at 25 degrees. No tailgating unless you have a “approved spot” at which time you must stop at games beginning and can’t leave and return. Local TV carries the game so it last 3 hours. No video screen for replays, poor sound system. Bathrooms? yes all two of them or if you prefer wait and use the lovely potty’s lined up outside.Starts raining a bit go to the concourse….wait there is no concourse…no cover. Something to eat. foods pretty good actully better than WVU!! or you can
    Go to PPL Park, park your car next to the stadium, go in have your selection of the latest brews or meet your friends at one of the tailgating tents where a live band is playing. food? Chickies and Pete’s, Philly cheesesteaks,wings. bathrooms with running hot water. WOW then make your way to an actual SEAT (non metal) watch the sun over the river.Scoreboard diplays recent great plays and provides stats.25,000 screaming fans stand as Villanova runs onto the field to play West Virginia. As usual thay have 4000 of their fans packing the place. ABC is carrying the game and we can get some revenge for their beating us in the Big East basketball tournament last year. a little drizzle braks out, no problem get warm in the concourse. see ya next week against Penn State………

  • DaveB

    Who in their freakin’ right mind would want a catholic CYO basketball league. The people on here talking this way are not from the “wine and cheese” crowd they are from the “dumb and dumber” crowd. They would watch it long enough to see us no longer relevant.

  • VUCat99

    Didn’t we draw less than 3,000 for a home FCS playoff game a year or two ago?

    Our football support has always been very poor (even worse than Temple’s) and we simply cannot compete with the resources, facilities, etc. that the big state schools have. We will be an embarrassment week in and week out. From the estimates that I’ve seen, we are going to invest the bare minimum into this program. What do you think is going to come out of that? A Big East Champion-caliber football program?!

    Not to mention that our best option for a stadium appears to be leasing an 18,000 seat soccer stadium… and that’s not even a sure thing!

    Comparing Villanova to Connecticut is absolutely ridiculous. I won’t even comment any further on that comparison.

    This upgrade is an absolutely terrible idea in virtually every regard. Fortunately, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that our BOT approves the move. Most of the alums I’ve spoken to think it’s absurd that we’re even spending money to investigate the feasibility of a move. It seems to be just a fringe group of fanatics that are in full support of it. I see no chance that this upgrade occurs… and that’s a good thing.

  • VUCat99

    Speaking of the Temple-Nova game, I was at the game last year and let me tell you… if that is a representative sample of Villanova’s football fanbase then we are in big trouble. There must have been 5 Temple fans to every 1 Nova fan. And Temple’s fanbase is pathetic compared to most other FBS schools… Nevermind the BCS!

    We are going to be getting absolutely destroyed by the likes of West Virginia and Rutgers in an 18,000 seat soccer stadium full of the other team’s fans on national TV. No thank you!

  • VUCat99

    Brian, I normally enjoy reading your articles but you are really off-base with the comparisons between Nova and UConn. The two schools couldn’t be any different.

  • Jimbo

    “(I)n the years to come” we’ll all be dead and won’t have to concern ourselves with fantasies of being a big-time college football powerhouse.

  • VUCat99

    So you’re suggesting that the motivating factor behind the football upgrade is to save the basketball program?

    That is not a good reason to spend tens of millions of dollars on a sport that we likely won’t be competitive in.

    Villanova is not a state-funded diploma mill like Rutgers or Pitt… it is a small, private university that prides itself on top-tier academics. I think that fact has really been lost throughout this discourse. The reality is that we have a lot more in common with Holy Cross than we do with UConn.

    Besides, basketball will be fine without the upgrade. We’re never going to be Duke, UNC, Kansas or Kentucky no matter what level our football team plays at. I just really do not see the point of upgrading.

  • PhilliesFan4234

    Brian, that’s not fair.

    Temple plays basketball in the Atlantic 10 while Nova plays basketball in the Big East. Don’t you think more fans would come out for Temple games if they played the level of competition that Nova plays night in and night out?

    It’s the exact same argument that people try to make for Nova upgrading to the Big East… if they played better teams, more people would come to games.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Temple plays football in the MAC, and the conference teams they play against have just as much drawing power as the CAA schools that Nova plays at the FCS level. Yet Temple averaged 20,000 fans per game last year (without Penn State coming to town) and Nova averaged 8,000.

    Temple football did not draw well when they played in the Big East because the team was absolutely terrible. How well do you think a terrible Villanova Big East program is going to draw? Honestly? I would be willing to bet that a Villanova football program that competed as poorly as Temple did during its time in the Big East would draw even less than Temple did. There simply aren’t even close to as many alums.

    If the upgrade goes through, we’ll know soon enough. Because there is no way that Villanova is going to field a competitive BCS football team with the limited resources and lack of facilities that they’re going to have.

    The bottom line is that neither Temple nor Villanova should be playing BCS football.

  • TConnor78

    In all of the years I have been associated with Villanova, I’ve been to one football game. I’m just not interested in it. And that’s not going to change when we’re getting blown out by Pitt at PPL Park.

    No to the upgrade.

  • Gpraz

    Damn that fringe group out there trying to maintain our Big East national reputation putting up money like that. Trying to protect our basketball tradition and improve our national presence. What the hells wrong with us raising so much money in that stupid football club. What’s wrong with the Big East asking us twice to join. Stupid fools!!! Idiots! What the hell is it with that report in 1997 that said it was ecomonically feasable. We can’t be competitive. That CAA league we play in keeps beating FBS teams on the road every year but that’s a fluke and Villanova beating Temple 2 out the last 3 that’s because we got lucky. That Big East conference is SOOOO strong in football we should be scared to death. Those Sagarin ratings that had the CAA ranked over three FBS leagues is flawed in spite of the fact it is a used by the BCS. We are too small, nobody will come, Temple draws 17,500 as an average and 30,500 when they play Nova but they were all Temple fans- all 13,000 extra fans. I want the football teams to kick us out of the Big East along with Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul and St. John’s so we can join St.Joe’s, Lasalle and Xavier in the “Super 8 Catholic League” so we can negotiate a good contract with Comcast so we can be seen all over the Northeast.I can’t stand ESPN! And another thing I’m sick and tired of these Matt Szczur, Brian Westbrook, D. Youngs, Brian Finneran, Ben Ijalana types acting all pro and cool on campus making us look like we care about football. And that Andy Talley winning all those games and going to the playoffs, running that bone marrow program, and acting all classy and shit. Who does he think he is?. Lastly, that priest who runs our school, doesn’t he know we are all stupid fools like when we put up money to build the Pavilion and Davis Center and convinced the school in 1980 to join the Big East. We are small, stupid, poor,illogical,silly, and we stink in sports and we should all be about academics. And those 5000 season ticket holders in football like me—sick–really sick- wasting all that time and money. Can’t believe I was that stupid and all those fools, alumni, who think like me. God help us all.

  • SOB2343

    What I want to know is, how are they going to play football at PPL Park with no gridlines?! I am told that the MLS will not allow gridlines on the field…

  • JRoard8799

    I have been told that their is going to be a major conflict between the MLS and the Delaware County Sports Authority if Nova even considers playing at PPL Park.

    Personally, I will never go to PPL Park again if football is being played there during the MLS season. That’s where I draw the line. I know for a fact that many other Union season ticket holders feel the same way.

  • PittPanther2983

    Pitt fans are worried that, if Nova joins the Big East for football and makes the absolute minimum investment into their program possible (which appears to be exactly what they will do), the Big East will lose it’s AQ bid.

    It’s not because we’re worried about increased competition from a tiny Catholic university that is going to play in front of 12,000 fans in an 18,000 seat soccer stadium.

    You people need to get a grip.

  • VUCat99

    I have no idea what your point is here.

    Universities are not businesses; they are institutions of higher learning. Period.

  • GPraz

    Well thats Ok but to be honest some of the games and players have been tremendous.A couple of the teams were really good. I only missed one home game that Brian Westbrook played in but I made up for it somewhat by seeing 5 or 6 on the road.Matt Szczur was awesome to watch. Question because you don’t like football which of course is fine why do you say no to the upgrade?

  • GPraz

    I looked into this because the GM said that was the only problem and possibly the condition of the field. Turns out that there is a process to put lines down on that type of surface and removed with virtually no traces. Your right MLS doesn’t want lines so this process can be used.

  • Floridanova

    Who is PITT to have any opinion on sizes of stadiums. Ever been to a PITT home game at the Steelers stadium. They might have 20-25,000 people in the stands. The only sold out games they have is when they play Notre Dame at home and the ND fans buy season tickets that year so they can get tickets for the game and that inflates their home attendance average. The year Cincinnati won the BE and the game was at PITT to decide the conference championship you would have had a hard time finding a PITT fan amongst all the RED and BLACK clad Cincinnati fans. The fact PITT is upset is baffling since they are program that is going no where and in a few years we could beat them. The school cannot recruit. Why is that? No fans in the stadium at most games (other than ND, WVU, and maybe the Big Ten they might play). PITT should focus on their own program issues and they have been on a downward spiral for years. Villanova will fill PPL because the fan base will be excited to finally watch real football and not Fordham or Maine. Villanova versus WVU, USF, Cuse, and even out of conference games with BC or ND. We might killed at first but we make these games competitive and we will attract much better talent than we currently have on the team. So PITT admin can shut up and work on getting their crappy team to draw. FBS football will be successful and to all the People on this site that don’t want football than keep enjoying the small regional Catholic school tag and no prestige outside of the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic region and then we can join the A-10 that has LaSalle, Temple, St. Joes, and the all rest of the “safety” schools that comprise the A-10 conference. All the schools in that conference are exspensive schools that are really not that good academically and don’t attract top students. FBS gives Villanova national foot print and exposure to Villanova strong academics. I am waiting to get a response to this post saying that St. Joes is a great school. I attend a Jesuit Prep school and even the Jesuits pushed Georgtown and BC and I don’t remember anyone selecting St. Joes as a first option. At least Villanova is safety school for Ivy’s and the business school is as good as any Ivy (less PENN and Harvard) and expanding the marketing reach of the school will even increase the value of our schools degree. I don’t want to be in the same league academically or athletically as Temple, LaSalle, Dayton, St.Joes etc…

  • unconditional love

    sorry about that…it is much worse, but yet very related to The Rat. it’s the infamous Bobby Smith rap video that played all the time on the Nova movie channel during 2000-01…aka “Lappas’ last year”. i feel it sums up the complete suck that was the program at the end of Lappas’ tenure. Seeing the excitement and enthusiasm that Jay brought in just his 1st year was amazing, even though he was still working with the leftover talent from the Lappas regime (Derrick “cornrows” Snowden, Brooks “my sister is better than me” Sales, Gary “i didn’t miss a FT for 2 years, but somehow i’m not a great scorer” Buchanon, and of course Bobby “unconditional love” Smith who brought a gun into Stanford and left school shortly thereafter). This video should be a reminder to everyone of the talent that was here before Jay…

  • GPraz

    Cool feel better.I felt like my mommy lsft me out in the snow and locked the door. I don’t know about you but the team we had the last two years that went 23-6 would beat them right now at a neutral site. Our offensive line would have been the second largest in the Big East. Bring it on Pitt and anyone whos convinced we can’t do it shame on you. I’ll be at the 50 yard line……yes there will be 20,000 or more there….yes it will be loud…..yes i will be tailgating…..yes we willl be on national TV…..yes the front page of the local newspapers will cover us (note:sorry Penn State)….yes………..your recruits will come to Nova for abetter education and better football team……wow thanks Florida i feel better now

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    VUCat99: I think, ideally, Villanova wants to be less like Holy Cross and more like Boston College, Notre Dame or, in the secular world, Duke or Stanford.

    All of whom are private, academically-oriented schools with BCS football.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    SOME Union fans will raise hell, but there really isn’t much MLS can do about it. Villanova would be working out their lease with the Union anyway, Tom Veit was in charge of the negotiations.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Where have you read that Villanova will make the minimum investment? There is a plan to build a state of the art practice facility and the trustees, athletics department and president of the university are only considering two options: (1) moving up and running a first-class program in the Big East or (2) not moving up.

    Villanova has no intention of half-assing the move, the University wants positive exposure for its investment. There are NOT many options for a stadium, however, and of the available options, PPL Park is easily the best facility.

    Also, anyone who actually believes that the Big East is in danger of losing it’s BCS AQ, is kidding themselves.

  • unconditional love

    yeah, the only way the BE loses it’s AQ is if it’s raided by another BCS conference and loses 1 or more of its “marquee” teams. and if that happens all hell will break lose anyway, which is another reason for Nova to upgrade. Nova doesn’t hurt the BE in any way in football. In fact, it only solidifies the conference more with a major tv market and helps them get one more step closer to a championship game. i am from pittsburgh and have been to several pitt games over the years…they are sad. only the backyard brawl was actually a good atmosphere because the other ones were half empty. for them to question Nova’s intentions is kind of stupid when they have enough problems of their own.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    You are absolutely right. We have much better support for our FCS football team than UConn ever had for theirs, and infinitely more success at the FCS level.

    I’m not suggesting that Villanova is going to draw 50,000, but the ‘Cats can be both competitive at the FBS level and can draw a decent crowd as well.

    My point is that you can’t look at our current football attendance and think that we will draw exactly the same after a move up. Look at the difference between our attendance for UDel at the Wells Fargo Center vs. any of our other games there — who you play has everything to do with it.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Once again: where are people making up this “bare minimum” idea from? If we were investing the bare minimum in the upgrade there wouldn’t be any fundraising for a $35million dollar practice facility.

    The upgrade would not be done on the cheap. The only difference between Villanova’s plan and what UConn did is that their upgrade included a new $91million stadium. Subtract that from their upgrade budget and the numbers we’re talking about are indistinguishable.

  • Lions1

    Villanova and Pitt played against one common opponent in 2010. Nova would get destroyed by any of the current Big East football teams. TCU in 2012 would possibly beat Villanova by 100 points.

    New Hampshire 31 Villanova 24
    New Hampshire 16 Pittsburgh 38

    Recruiting would be a very hard and long process for Villanova.

  • Lions1

    Maybe Notre Dame will drop USC or Michigan off their schedule for Nova. Keep dreaming.

  • realitycheck

    Keep dreaming. Pitt football attendance the last two seasons averaged over 50K. A lot of large mouths that obviously have never been to Heinz. No way should Pitt have to play in a 20K stadium. No one in the BE should. Grow up your program or get lost.

    2008 49,352
    2009 53,446
    2010 52,165

  • Gary

    A “source” that is friends with a relative of an administrator at the University of Notre Dame says that if the Big East kicks out Villanova, then Notre Dame will become a full member. Also, there is another “source” saying that Penn State and Ohio State will jump from the Big Ten to join the Big East.

  • Gary

    I’m sure the rest of the Big East FBS teams are going to love sharing all that bowl money with SmallerNova! Everybody on here seems to think that SmallerNova will win the National Championship instantly though.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Notre Dame also plays the likes of Tulsa and Western Michigan every year…

    Honestly, I do agree that Nova fans need to get over the dream of a permanent rivalry with Notre Dame. They didn’t have one before 1980 and they probably won’t have one now. Hopefully though, the ‘Cats can revive their series with Boston College, which was easily one of the biggest games on both schools’ schedule for a long time.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    How does the ACC feel about sharing it’s revenue with Duke?

    Duke football is hardly a commodity.

  • http://twitter.com/Brian_Ewart Brian Ewart

    Ah, the old transitive property…

    http://www.usatoday.com//sports/sagarin/fbt10.htm

  • unconditional love

    L’ville 62 Pitt 59
    Nova 88 L’ville 74

    Does anyone believe Nova is better than Pitt in bball this year? I think not. You can’t look at 1 opponent make a judgement of a whole program.

    Nova’s recruiting isn’t on the same level as Pitt right now, but why should it be? Nova isn’t a FBS school right now so it shouldn’t be getting the big recruits. But everyone knows that Eastern PA is dominant in HS football, so upgrading the recruiting wouldn’t be as impossible as it sounds when you can offer the recruits a great education as well as the chance to play on nationally televised games against top 25 teams. Talley already produces NFL players at the FCS level, there’s no reason to think he won’t produce more at the FBS level.

  • Gpraz

    Let’s see Nova blew out JMU. JMU beat Virginia Tech on the road. Take a look at VT schedule and Nova’s the last two years as well as the entire CAA. Not only is the CAA beating FBS teams every year but they do it on the road and when they lose many of the games are competitive. Also when their not in the games they are usually won or lost in th 4th quarter because the FBS team has more depth with 22 more scholarships. This is obviously a basketball blog because I go to all the games. I’ve seen Rutgers, Pitt, Cincy,Temple, play and I as well as other season ticket holders don’t see any difference. Cincy, Rutgers, and Michigan are/were ranked below us in the Sagarin ratings as Brian clearly shows in the link. I know we would have had 500 recored in Big East last year and this year we would have a won a couple games with the current team.I guess you had to be there the last 25 years to really know. By the way a friend of mine went to the Temple Nova game (2009) with my brother who are both avid Penn Sate fans and we of course beat Temple. They both said they were shocked at the skill level.-on Nova.

  • Gpraz

    They will share with somebody like maybe Central Florida. Man now I really understand why Andy Talley gets so mad. Does anybody watch the games?. Virginia, Duke, Temple, Virginia Tech all lost AT HOME to CAA teams last two years. Why do people find it so hard to realize the talent is already there. That’s why the Sagarin ratings (used by BCS) had the CAA ranked OVER two FBS leagues. I am not shaking in my boots or having to change my diaper at the thought of playing Rutgers,Cincy. Hell Temple beat UConn the Big east Champions. We lost to Temple on a last second field goal!!!!!! (note our reliable kicker missed two and their kicker made a 51 yarder) Any Nova football fan and fan of CAA is not afraid RIGHT now to play these teams.

  • Gpraz

    They gladly took our Final Four money.

  • Gpraz

    hey Pitt fan get off our site or do you wear crimson and white (hint St Joey’s!!!)

  • USC_Cat

    Part of the unknown which concerns some of the Big East (and a local program) is Villanova’s impact on their recruiting. An example would be the impact of the Boise State on the Pac 10. Kids from Long Beach Poly, Oaks Christian, et al. are not “locks for USC or UCLA these days. Something “new” (Villanova) looks better to recruits than something “old” (Pitt) to recruits. Villanova already proven it can recruit on the coast. This is something some of the Big East programs can’t say.

  • Gpraz

    Some season ticket holders like me don’t care. But let’s point out something. Tax payer money and tax breaks went to that area and stadium. Villanova grads, friends, etc contributed to that stadium. My family livesin Delaware County and Ed Rendell the gov, a Nova grad, pushed that project. Hey I am a big soccer fan but that stadium, the ownership group, the city of Chester, Delaware County and the state know that 18 or so soccer games will not support that stadium. Trust me speaking as a Union season ticket holder you need Villanova football in the worst way.

  • Gpraz

    They need events there like a crack head needs a fix!!!!!!. They will kiss our butts to be there. Imagine the fact that NOVA football will be on National TV and Regional TV more than the Union. “live from PPL park in Chester PA it’s Villanova vs UConn. This is ABC college football’. Another thing ratings for MLS drew a 1-2.2 share on ESPN when Union plays. It was double that for college basketball.Veit was a South Florida athletic director……

  • Megadrone

    This is actually a comment to VUCat99 below. So Temple only draws for Nova, and the fans in attendance were primarily Temple fans that only come out for Villanova? If you were at the game I don’t deny it, but it could also prove my point about drawing when the competitiion is good. It’s not all that solid a foundation to justify upgrading but the potential for a 30K fan base is there in Philly. I personally thought Temple should get the nod for a re-invitation over ‘Nova (for football) and UCF, but the admin in Providence and school presidents must think otherwise.

  • Gpraz

    Unconditional gets the point. Can’t take one game. It’s the total body of work. Thats why the sagarin ratings work so well.

  • FruitLoops

    I completely agree with VUCat. UConn had the land donated by the state from an old airfield, miles and miles to build a stadium tailored specifically to UConn. Nova is going to be a second-rate tenant in a stadium that is not tailored specifically for their use. Nova is not Philly’s “team”, nor will they ever be. UConn is Connecticut’s only show in town, so the schools are not comparable. However, I do believe Nova should move up only because the financial loss is proven to be less no matter what the scenario according to the feasibility study.

  • Gpraz

    USC_Cat may ne too samrt for this site Brian. Sounds like he/she know football. Should we throw them off?? lol lol lol

  • unconditional love

    no one expects Nova to win a national championship in the near future…heck maybe ever. people on this blog are smart enough to know that this is more about bball and promoting the great academics of the univiersity than it is winning a national championship. we are not ND and will never be. but, they expect that the team can compete with the big boys and be competitive, give alums a great place to come back to tailgate at and hopefully become a team that Nova Nation will cheer, embrace and be proud of on the highest level of competition. they have proven this is possible with wins over Temple and Rutgers over the last few years (as well as almost beating Pitt over a decade ago, as previously mentioned). Temple did go to a bowl game the year we beat them, so it’s not like they were a doormat. sorry that Pitt thinks it’s “too good” to play in a smaller stadium…i personally don’t give a *#%@ what a mediocre team that underachieves every year thinks. if ND wanted to come to philly then i’d care, but i highly doubt they will be interested in any game that doesn’t involve a Nova roadtrip to South Bend. besides, it wouldn’t even be Pitt’s home field, so what do they care anyway??? playing 1 game every 2 years in a smaller stadium isn’t as bad as having the most convicts on your roster! get perspective!

  • Hail2Pitt

    Get over yourselves. Villanova football is a joke. Do you know why we scheduled you first in 2013? Easy win, warm up game. Villanova will NEVER steal a recruit from Pitt, and quite frankly as a football fan I think UCF is a much better fit. Where would you rather play as an 18 year old kid? A stadium that holds 65k and also houses the greatest professional football team in the history of the sport or in some clown soccer stadium? Why don’t you guys just play in a HS stadium?

  • Anonymous

    “Villanova will NEVER steal a recruit from Pitt”

    I agree H2P…Among the faculty’s greatest concerns in voting “NO” to a move to the FBS is that we WOULD get the type of recruit that Pitt gets…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-McCormack/607435732 Joe McCormack

    Pitt should worry about selling out their own stadium, which they rarely do.

  • Sportsknight13

    Villanova is going to bankrupt itself and compromise its prestige as an institution of higher learning for that of an athletic force, which it will never achieve. A school like UCF makes way more sense. All their sports can easily make the jump to the Big East and can in fact already compete on that level. Plus, they already have an on-campus stadium and are the 2nd largest University in the NATION. Florida already has nice weather and fans would actually enjoy traveling to Orlando, not just for football, but for golf, beaches, Disney, Universal, SeaWorld, etc…Also, think of the benefits it would bring in terms of recruiting. The only real BE member that would fear a UCF addition is USF and everyone in the State of FL knows why that is. One step on either of those campuses and you will know in a heartbeat why the Bulls don’t want any part of UCF being on equal ground.

  • Steve Pederson

    Yeah Pitt is scared you weirdo. The Big East is a joke of a league. Bringing in Villanova does nothing for the perception of the league. I hope they block the crap out of you. Next year play Pitt in a real arena. Your small little scary arena didn’t work this year.

  • #1 Pitt Fan

    Maybe Gary McLain will show up high on crack and entertain the crowd.

  • Bfrlaw

    A Catholic schools basketball league would be a ridiculous step down for Villanova, and Notre Dame would not be interested. Why are so many people afraid for Villanova to step up with the big boys, become a nationally prominent institution, instead focusing on staying with small time local catholic schools and playing FCS Football? I don’t get it.

  • Bfrlaw

    and quantity and quality of applications to Villanova would drop off, enrollment would decline, money would become tighter, where are we going with that? Villanova sits on the cusp of being recognized as a major nationally prominent institution right now and it is time to keep moving in that direction. Make the move to the Big East in football so all teams compete in the conference. Big East football was down a bit this year, that is cyclical and will change. Villanova can compete at that level, you will be surprised at how good we can become fairly quickly.

  • unconditional love

    hey 2nd largest university, how many football championships do you have? that’s right, the same as Nova. and basketball? yeah, that’s what i thought. All of Nova’s sports except for football do compete in the BE, and they actually do quite well thank you very much. I would say Nova is a force in several sports already, as shown by the bball team as well as the historic track and cross country teams. And what about joining in football hurts the prestige? The university would not make the move if it thought the reputation would take a hit. Period. If you think big time football hurts the likes Duke, BC, or ND then you’ve spent too much time in the sun. This topic as well as the finances associated with moving up has been studied very closely, and if you actually read this blog instead of going all fox news by making ubsubstantial claims then i wouldn’t have to repeat that statement. And flying down to florida for the weekend once or twice a year in this economy doesn’t sound all that great, no matter if Mickey and Minnie are there greeting me at my seat. Before boasting how great your school is, let’s see how many UCF fans fly up to see them play UConn, Rutgers or ‘Cuse. That being said, it seems there’s a decent chance that UCF will get an invite no matter what Nova says if the conference can appease USF, so you should be happy if Nova does join because that gets the conference closer to a championship game.

  • Bfrlaw

    I plan on being around for a while, never mentioned or predicted we would be a big time football powerhouse, just stated that we need to step up to be competitive in a big time conference. It is tougher for private schools with admissions standards (unlike many of the national state schools that have no standards for admitting football players) to attract the best recruits to compete for national championships, although it can be done – see USC, Stanford, Notre Dame for example. We can aspire to have a good football team in a major conference however.

  • unconditional love

    how’d this warm up go??? You shouldn’t be so cocky with the way Wannstadt ran that program…

    vs. Bowling Green LOSS, 27-17
    Date: Aug. 30, 2008
    Location: Heinz Field

    Get over the Elite 8 loss and Scottie Reynolds. You guys have a really good team every year since ’02 and the only reason the Panthers don’t make the Final 4 is because they choke or get outplayed by the 2nd leading scorer in Villanova history. Seriously, if Pitt doesn’t make the Final 4 this year I’m afraid people might start jumping of the Smithfield St bridge into the Mon. Pitt should be afraid of losing recruits in the eastern part of the state to a better academic school with an actual campus that easily allows family and friends to watch them play every home game. You guys can keep the criminals though…

  • Bfrlaw

    USC is not losing many LA recruits to the likes of Boise State, believe me. Look at their #4 rated recruiting class this year, even in the face of sanctions.

  • Gpraz

    You seem to link attendance to on field performance. The last time we played Pitt we almost beat you guys when Brian Westbook acored 5 TD’s. I thought it was nice to see 40,000 fans give a standing O to a visiting player. Your basketball team is tremendous these days but it would take you 50 years to ketch up to our little tiny poor little baby school. NBC listed us in 2008 as on of the 13 best Basketball programs ever BEFORE we went to the Final Four! Pitt was nowhere to be found in the top 50!! May I suggest you spend a few moments and realize we will get recruits because players actually at times want an education and the last time I checked we have NO players with arrest records and 98%graduation rate. So when we beat you in our tiny paultry soccer stadium and graduate all of our non arrested players check back with me. I will be here. You will win the attendance battle every time. We win on the field-got that. Translation where I come from Pitt is High School. Got that or do you need me to explain a little more.

  • Jeff

    Dear Pitt,

    F You. Your football team sucks and your basketball team will once again finish the season with a disapointing loss before getting to the Final 4. Now, excuse me while I go watch that Scotty Reynolds drive to the basket once again….

  • Gpraz

    How many national chmpionships does Pitt have? Just curious! Nova has three in the last two years!

  • Bfrlaw

    Wow, someone from Pitt calling any other program a joke is hysterical, a program made up of renegades and hiring coaches who get fired in a few days for allegations of domestic abuse. We don’t WANT your type of recruits! Academically the school is a joke too, look at acceptance rates.

  • Gpraz

    How many NBA and NFL players from Pitt? how many from Nova- hint tiny little baby catholic school has…………..3 times more……..oh well
    Olympians ahh ahhh ahhh well where’s my mommy…..

  • Sportsknight13

    Never was comparing championships, was comparing common sense. A school of more than 50,000 undergrads and a huge Alumni population in the surrounding area, with facilities already built and the commitment to athletics already established, just simply makes more sense. I’m not Nova bashing. Personally, I’d rather see UCF in the ACC someday (not very likely). I’m just saying UCF would be a better fit and has enormorous potential for success. UCF was est. in 1963. Not really that long ago on the larger scheme of things. The fact it’s now the 2nd largest Univerisity in the NATION illustrates its growth potential and what it could mean $$$-wise for the Big East. I think UCF fans would be just as likely to travel to any of the BE schools over that of the areas the C-USA currently plays in…However, on the flip-side…I’m sure many of you Northerners would love to enjoy the nice sunny weather Orlando has to offer. I’ve seen plenty of BE fanbases like UCONN, Rutgers and WV have just as many fans at a home USF game as the bulls do…so, BE fans obviously do come down in force. Plus, the natural rivalry it would create with USF is priceless. UCF and USF already hate eachother with a passion. The yearly battles they would have would truly be Epic. The difference in all the other BB Powers many compare is the fact that they are larger and already have decent facilities in place. The only sport that UCF has that would actually need a little transition time for success would likely be Mens and Womens Basketball. However, with inclusion in the Big East, they would quickly be able to recruit at a level that could easily compete well in just a few short seasons. Heck, they’d definitely do better than USF instantly. All other sports can compete NOW…Women’s Track & Field # 9 in the Country…Men and Women’s Soccer….Top 25, Football….Top 25, Baseball…definitely capable of cracking Top 25 this season, etc…That’s all WITHOUT a current BCS conference tag. What do you think the success is going to be like once they are in a BCS conference…start getting even better recruits…and collecting even more Athletic revenue?

  • Gpraz

    Let’s get something straight. We are taking out time to get this right. We don’t intend on doing anything “half ass” ok big boy. from what I have seen of Big East Football lately Nova and our excellent national reputation can only improve the Big East and with the basketball and Track and Field you can bet no one at NCAA will mess with the AQ. You keep gettting all your players arrested and firing your coach every couple years might be something you could work on to improve the Big East. I will not be having to change my diaper over playing your football team. Bring it on. Should be no contest right. At a soccer stadium right.

  • Financepro

    Can we please stop all the childish remarks about the schools. This issue is not about recruiting. It is not about being afraid or not being afraid to play each other every year.
    It is about $$$ money and that is all that it is about.

    Football is big business. When done properly it funds the rest of your programs and energizes alumni giving. When done improperly it will suck the life out of your athletic department and hurt alumni giving.

    Pitt (and every other Big East school) is only concerned about one thing: whether ‘Nova will generate $$$ for other Big East teams or cost them money.

    The school has a fine reputation and the media market is great, so what’s the problem?
    Pitt and everyone else is afraid that Nova won’t step up to the plate and really spend the $$$ to put a great product on the field. Because that’s all it takes. Gobs of $$$. ANYONE in the Big East can have a great program if they’re willing to spend enough to get it.

    Saying you’ll spend $30M on a practice facility is nice, but nobody ever earned a dollar from a practice facility. And an 18,000 seat stadium won’t cut it in this league. Heck, a 30,000 seat stadium won’t cut it.

    You can whine all you want that Pitt doesn’t sell out every game, but their average attendance last year was 52,165. In ’09 it was 53,446. WVU’s attendance was over 56,000 each year.
    The AVERAGE Big East attendance was over 40,000 for all FBS schools. If the Villanova fans don’t understand why adding a team with an 18,000 seat stadium is unacceptable, then you’re not as bright as you pretend to be.

    If Nova wants to step up to Big East football, then step up. Build a $90M stadium that will seat 40,000+. Spend $4M on your football coaching staff and another $2M to $4M a year on the football program. Recruit like crazy and put a great football team on the field. One that will equal or exceed your basketball program. Then Pitt and everyone else will welcome you with open arms. But if you’re not willing to do that, then you’re just pretending to compete. And nobody is interested in that.

  • Financepro

    There are CURRENTLY 32 former Pitt football players playing in the NFL. How many from Villanova???

  • Gpraz

    I change my mind I WANT UCF IN BIG EAST INSTEAD OF VILLANOVA. I love sea world.!!!
    UCF stands for what… Unified Central France? I forget. UCF playing Villanova year after year in basketball would cause me to no longer need Ambien.

  • Gpraz

    I looked up national championships won by UCF and my “google is blank” –referred me to Florida State.

  • Anonymous

    So Financepro…I appreciate your stepping away from the childishness…but tell me something…I don’t really have an issue with anything you’ve said above, but I’m wondering why you’re making that point here…a day late and a dollar short. Why didn’t you make it to the BE office BEFORE offers went out? If as you say, nobody’s interested in the Nova football product, why they hell did the league make the offer to us? For the second time by the way. It would seem to me that someone in a position of authority at the league office disagrees with you and Pitt fan and thinks Villanova has something of value to offer…

  • Gpraz

    Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. The soccer stadium will expand to 30,000 which for us will work just fine and the stadium is over 90 million so why build it if we don’t have to?. Our tax money and state money-which as a private institution we don’t get- was already spent on the stadium. If you feel strongly that 30,000 will not cut it then 39 universities must leave FBS now because they are under that amount. We intend to “step up to the plate.” That’s why we are taking our time.One thing I know for sure–. The Big East wants us. There must be a reason for that. If attendance determined champions then what happened this year with UConn winning it all in Big East??? I do by the way appreciate you complements actually but seriously we know all this we really do. We do.

  • Vicsbean

    ChillCat It comes down to votes. Right now it seems bb holds the day in the BE! If Nova does not go football, and the BE brings in another football school, the conference swings to a football conference. And then, you may see a break off of football teams to form a seperate conference and that leaves NOVA out in the cold.

  • Anonymous

    I hear you VB…and that’s a large part of the reason why Nova fan wants to make the move. But Pitt Fan’s main point seems to be not that it’s about votes but rather that it’s about money and a UCF move would be much more lucrative for the Big East NET NET than a Nova move…I simply can’t see an offer being extended to Villanova if there was a substantially more lucrative net offer e.g. UCF that could have been made.

  • Gpraz

    I didn’t ask “How many flowers on the tree” I asked “how many leaves on the tree” Let’s hope you have more NFL players!!!. I was actually trying to be fair by including football for your sake so once again how many NBA, NFL,and Olympians from Pitt vs tiny little baby catholic Villanova in history??.
    You have 20 times the number of alumni so I would expect around 20 times more or at least double right? Listen if we throw in baseball it gets worse ok! We are not afraid to play Pitt in anything. I love Pitt to be honest so I’m not bashing. That B-ball team is excellent. Just don’t make us out to be microbes in the world of sports because 4 Final Fours alone stands up.Three National Championships in two years. Tell us you are going to kick our gleuteus maximus all you want. Don’t tell us we need 50,000 to play football. Hell we made it to three Final Four with home courts of 3300 (Field house) and 8700(Palestra). We can play. You have more fans. we have more trophies. I think that’s ok

  • Vicsbean

    We may find that there was a tradeoff of some sorts or a deal if you will. Nova votes for TCU and the BE (some schools) vote for Nova to come into football! But to be honest, everyone on here can see the argument that is being made is legit. And trust me, it is WVU in addition to PITT that is against the NOVA MOVE! It all comes down to potential revenue.

  • Kittlesfan95

    Hail2Pitt,

    In reference to your “Villanova will NEVER steal a recruit from Pitt”…

    I invite you to click this link:

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/villanova/football/recruiting/player-Corey-Majors-90616;_ylt=ApSW3uVj.RIpdu1NMmCW86MBupB4

    Yes, read who he got offers from. It appears that he was recruited by “Brian Angelichio” and was offered a scholarship from none other than “Pitt”.

    We haven’t even announced that we are definately upgrading to the Big East, and we’re already picking off your prospective talent.

    If you think ‘Nova doesn’t pose a serious threat when it comes to recruiting you’re not all that smart….and next time do your homework before making a rediculous statement on this site. You’re only embarassing yourself and your fanbase.

  • PhillyKnight

    Bottom line: Philly is not a college football town, I know b/c I am from Philly and live here now (and I went to UCF so I somewhat torn). Look, TCU was not a great move to the BE either. Yes, they have had success in football over the past years but in desperation, they took them to strengthen their conference in football. The Nova experiment is unnecessary and will most likely fail (see Temple, see Philly in general). Adding UCF (2nd largest University in the country with a lot of upside potential) will give the BE a more immediate impact for strengthening the conference, BECAUSE THEIR ARE NOT MANY OTHER CHOICES RIGHT NOW. Notre Dame, PSU, Navy, etc have no interest in joining and there’s no guarantee of another massive conference shuffling. UCF with USF brings an immediate in state rivalry, great TV market, and a recruiting ground in FL desireable to every conference recruiter out there. I’d pull the trigger on just UCF or if they are hell bent on Nova, take 3: UCF, Nova, and add either Houston (to pair with TCU) or ECU, SMU, or pester Navy again into joining.

  • Sporsknight13

    Let’s be crystal clear here. The small Big East “BASKETBALL SCHOOLS” want Villanova to move up, but the LARGE Big East “FOOTBALL SCHOOLS” are overwhelmingly AGAINST IT! Other than USF, for obvious reasons, they would choose UCF hands down. Why? A: Because of the current BCS system in place and the $$$ football revenue generates. By the way…that crappy UCF Basketball Team BEAT USF this year, yet your AWESOME Nova squad just LOST. Even with all those PAST Championships? Wouldn’t it be great if past Championships equated to Wins and Losses today? Oops…must be all that warm Florida Sunshine causing my neurons to misfire again. I apologize. The truth is, Villanova has Alumni older than the length of time UCF has been established as a university. Yet, it’s already the 2nd LARGEST university in the nation. It’s been playing I-A football longer than UCONN and USF did when they joined and ALREADY has the facilities and athletic support system in place. Does UCF have a historic-rich past like Nova? No. But quite frankly, UCF hasn’t exactly been around all that long, not to mention, hasn’t been sitting in a BCS Conference all these years either. However, UCF does have a pretty good athletic program TODAY and will continue to be successful and grow by leaps in bounds in the FUTURE. That growth and potential equates to $$$. In a perfect world, the Big East should take UCF now, then add Nova and either ECU or Houston in another two years. This would buy Nova the necessary time to adequately prepare for the step-up, allow UCF to have instant access now to help please the football schools with their immediate 10-team goal because they can instantly compete and help keep the BCS status, and it would allow for a Championship game in the future by having 12 teams total. But, that probably makes too much sense for EVERYONE!

  • BIG 10 FAN

    I must say, as an outsider, you guys make the Big East look like complete idiots.

    The Big East could invite:

    School A
    1.) The largest University in the State of Florida.
    2.) The second largest University in the entire United States of America
    3.) A University that actually CARES about football, has IN PLACE athletic facilities that are state of the art.
    4.) A University that would enthusiastically join.
    5.) A University that is coming off of a Bowl win against an SEC opponent, Georgia.

    Or, School B
    1.) SMALL private school.
    2.) School that is taking a million years in “studies” to decide if they really can afford football.
    3.) School that wants to play many miles off campus in a SOCCER Stadium?????
    4.) School that was so gung ho about Football that they had to actually drop the program altogether as recently as 1980.

    The fact that the Big East is even inviting you to play Football AT ALL explains why, outside of the elite Providence bubble, the Big East is a complete and utter National joke.

  • South25

    Philadelphia always thinks of itself as a football power. This is an example of small thinking city that does not have a college or pro football championship. Maybe you folks in Philadelphia should have a stadium of more than 18000 to play on the big time, They would laugh you out of town in the SEC. If you want to play in big leagues get a stadium that matches

  • Jhavelka747

    Your an idiot….from one of the f’ers from Pitt

  • comcast

    GPraz…the Union’s president is quoted as saying that if they had an additional $40 million when they built PPL, they would have added 10,000 more seats.

    Who is paying for the expansion to the stadium?

  • V for Vaginosis

    small thinking city? now you just make yourself sound stupid. the SEC has so many fans because they don’t have pro sports…DUH. don’t you have another civil war reenactment to get to rather than waste your time here?

    if Nova can sell about 30,000-35,000/game that would put them in the ballpark with other schools from the BE and ACC. the BE is not the SEC in football and never will be. go rant on the blogs of every school on this list if you think it’s so lame that the SEC has bigger stadiums and more fans than them. you can’t blame Nova for getting invited by their own conference of 30 years!

    avg attendance rankings from 2009:

    59 Syracuse 39,043
    60 Connecticut 38,229
    61 TCU 38,187
    62 UCF 38,078
    63 Hawaii 36,725
    64 Baylor 36,306
    65 Boston College 35,716
    66 Air Force 35,656
    67 Vanderbilt 35,015
    68 Cincinnati 33,957
    69 Fresno St. 33,578
    70 Boise St. 32,782
    71 Louisville 32,450
    72 Wake Forest 31,791
    73 Navy 31,728
    74 Southern Miss. 30,696
    75 UTEP 29,010
    76 Army 27,997
    77 New Mexico 26,944
    78 Duke 26,314
    79 Washington St. 25,909
    80 Memphis 25,795
    81 Houston 25,242
    82 Tulane 25,147
    83 San Diego St. 24,464

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-DeAngelo/1746164696 Tony DeAngelo

    It’s always interesting to learn what my university’s “officials” are doing and saying — not from any information generated by Pitt — but from other school’s blogs. I’m surprised Pitt has time to worry about what ‘Nova is doing considering the issues Pitt has to deal with. But I think Nordenberg and Pederson are leary of any in-state football rival that is not Penn State. When Temple was booted out of the football BE, Pitt was relived and promptly took the Owls off future football schedules. The chances are good that if ‘Nova moves up, no matter how the program is doing, they will always give Pitt fits on the football field. Don’t discount the hoops relationship in Pitt’s view of ‘Nova as a football member. In hoops, Villanova always seems to treat Pitt as lesser-than-equal and the Pitt administration was very unhappy with ‘Nova’s decision to host the Pitt-Villanova basketball game at the small on campus facility, eliminating the possibility of a game day crew making the scene. Finally, Pitt wants to play in Florida every season for recruiting purposes. Adding Central Florida would allow that to happen. The Orlando Sentinel is primed to cover college football with the Knights as a BE school. The Philly papers always treat college sports as a distant second tier interest. Villanova in the Big East for football wouldn’t change that much. Your Philly media will always consider Penn State a home town team despite the fact State College is in far eastern Western Pennsylvania.

Recent Comments

Disclaimer

VUhoops.com is an independent site and is not affiliated with, or endorsed by, Villanova University or its athletic programs.